Discover more from NON THREATENING BOYS* BY POLYESTER
Non Threatening Boys*: E.R. Fightmaster and Lucy Dacus In Conversation
"You kind of look like a seven-year-old boy from '88."
If you asked Polyester to make a list of our favourite boys*, E.R. Fightmaster, who makes music as FIGHTMASTER, would be near the top. The actor, musician and model is the artist behind some of our favourite music of the year – the propulsive EP Bloodshed Baby – so we were delighted, then, when they agreed to be the first feature in our Non-Threatening Boys* interview and editorial series. We were even more delighted when another of our faves – Lucy Dacus of boygenius, one of the culture’s most dominant boys* in recent years – agreed to interview them on our behalf.
Here, in a conversation moderated by Polyester, Lucy and E.R. talk about gender, fashion choices, Bloodshed Baby, masculinity without domination, and the best shit they’ve ever gotten for free. That conversation is accompanied here by an editorial series featuring E.R. as that quintessentially masc figure – the knight in shining armour – shot by Camille Mariet. Read the interview below, and then print the pics out, put them on your bedroom wall, and give them a kiss goodnight before bed.
XOXO,
The Polyester Team <3
Polyester: Can you talk a bit about the EP? How does it differ from Violence? How does it symbolise a continuation of your artistry? Lucy, how do you view the new EP?
E.R. Fightmaster: I think the biggest difference between Bloodshed Baby and Violence is that I wrote Violence when I was falling in love. I was the horniest that anyone's ever been ever, and I wrote Bloodshed when that specific love had given me all of this space to grieve and grow. So, they're energetically really different but very connected. Violence is such a sultry experience and Bloodshed has a lot of angst. But, I think the angst comes from a place of hopefulness, which is a lot different than a place of sadness.
Lucy Dacus: I feel like E.R. will write about an emotion they're having as it's happening. Part of the writing process is part of you mulling over this idea that you're having. Whereas for me, I have a really delayed reaction. I do think it's better and more embodied to be able to speak to what you're going through in the moment. And I think that's something that anger has to offer because it puts you in your body and into the present moment, even if it feels bad. Anger can be very generative. E.R., do you feel your songwriting is an anger-fuelled thing?
E.R. Fightmaster: I do think that it's anger-fuelled, but I think that it's more of a righteous rage conversation. Righteous rage is helpful to a community, you don't see change without it. When it comes to your music, Luce, one of the things that I like about it actually is that you've taken so much time to process the emotion. So you get this really thoughtful, poetic story because you've had the time to really think about it in all its beautiful formats. I've always liked that about your songs.
Lucy Dacus: Thanks. In “recent writing from a horny place experience,” though, I do feel like I'm more on your tip than I have ever been, though.
E.R. Fightmaster: It’s fun, huh?
Lucy Dacus: It’s fun.
E.R., you said in an interview previously that “Violence is a performance of what my understanding of masculinity looks like.” Would you say that Bloodshed Baby continues on in that vein?
E.R. Fightmaster: Violence is a performance of what I think masculinity can be when you strip it of domination. And that's a very important distinction to me because I actually think gender looks different for everybody. Lucy and I have talked about this before, and my understanding of womanhood and femininity is much different than the way that it's pitched. When I meet a really powerful person, or in the moments that I'm feeling most powerful, I feel feminine. And that's always been true for me. I think that's because my mom was kind of a powerhouse. My symbols of womanhood are strong. Whereas my dad is a very kind, gentle guy so my visions of masculinity are kind and gentle and playful. When I make music, it's meant to be horny, it's meant to be sultry, it's meant to create this experience. It's supposed to be showing you what masculinity can look like if it's not toxic, if we're not afraid of it, if it's not being used to control and dominate. So, that's my small distinction.
E.R., what are you channelling via your clothing choices for the Bloodshed Baby era? Does it differ from how you’ve used fashion to express in the past?
E.R. Fightmaster: My trans icon Tár! When I went to see the movie Tár I didn't realise I was dressed as Tár. First of all, I did look incredible. But I also looked like the people who go see a Marvel movie dressed as Captain America. It looked so intentional. So yeah, always Tár.
The thing about fashion for me is that I put on things that I like, and the things that I like are different every day. And that's such a wonderful place to be because I think of getting dressed every day as the first artistic thing I do. I'm rarely caught outside of the house in an outfit that I wouldn't want a friend to take a photo of me in because aesthetic is really important to me. That is in part because when I was growing up, the aesthetic was out of my control because I had to do so much to make sure that everyone knew I was “normal,” so I’d just wear sweatpants every single day. I didn't want to be seen or “caught,” and I didn't even understand what I meant by that. I just didn't want to be “caught.” Now that I'm out and I really enjoy who I am, everything that I do is kind of like, me asking myself “Is this pleasing?”
You know, if tomorrow, I felt really femme, I would dress really femme. But right now I'm about to go to Seattle and do a show, so I've been thinking about grunge, and I've got my little 90s boys shirt on.
Lucy Dacus: You kind of look like a seven-year-old boy from '88.
E.R. Fightmaster: That's how I feel! It's very hard to pick a show wardrobe after seeing so many boygenius concerts, seeing them doing every show in a really well-fitted suit.
Lucy Dacus: It’s downhill from here for me. I'll say that. What do I do now?
E.R. Fightmaster: You guys looked amazing. It's so fucked up.
Lucy Dacus: We were the first people to wear suits.
E.R. Fightmaster: Like ever. I can't remember any suit I've ever seen before seeing boygenius on tour. Just the horniest outfits. I love suits so much. I'm trying to find my suit.
Lucy Dacus: You make it work. You're really good with the matching pairs of things. That's a good look for you.
E.R. Fightmaster: Thank you. What about you? You dress well every day – I’ve seen that vintage hunting jacket.
Lucy Dacus: That jacket is life-changing. But you know, this question is interesting, because it is a day-to-day thing. I think that some people are comforted by the way that they're going to be the same all the time and almost like having a brand to themself. Whereas, that sounds suffocating to me, to actually have a complete idea of who I am. I have to always be changing. I think it's just cool to wake up and ask yourself what you're into that day. I think that that probably proliferates through other parts of life, too.
E.R. Fightmaster: Every time I come over to your house, it's like you're either wearing a mesh bra or the most handsome dad outfit I've ever seen, and there is no in-between. We'll go to a show wearing mesh. I don't know what gender I'm getting. It's pleasing to me.
Lucy Dacus: I was about to be like, “You're making that up.” And then I remember that's just literally true.
Obviously we’ve just had Pride month. How do you feel about this time of year? What should we be talking about?
E.R. Fightmaster: I think we should be talking about Palestine. I think queer people are responsible, we understand our responsibility to others, and that's where queerness goes beyond sexuality. We're queer all year long. It's just that in June, we come together. I think it should feel like this family reunion where we check in. And we kind of get our dopamine for the year, you know, we all party with each other, and we see each other and we celebrate. But I always want to make sure that inside of that celebration, we’re remembering that we are basically a political faction of rebellion. And that rebellion is a responsibility to protect the least served. And right now those are the people in Palestine.
Lucy Dacus: I’d also like to say Free Palestine. I just read this book, and I'll say the title of book: “The Faggots and Their Friends Between Revolutions” [by Larry Mitchell]. And it's a classic. It's based on this real life experience of this queer community and talks a lot about class. And this, like, dividedness between queer culture and straight culture, but also where they meet. And so I think Pride, and queerness, isn't a monolith. Pride is really important for some people and like, not that noticeable or important for other people. I think there's a lot of noise about how corporations sort of co-opted pride. I have a trans woman friend that was like, “Yeah, I'm at the Chevron and it has a trans flag. But the guy next to me in his truck is still looking at me like he wants to kill me.” What credit does Chevron get for this? It just feels kind of hard to mark. At the same time, before I came out, I was like, “Oh, yeah, I’ll go to some pride events, I'm an ally. A lot of queer people just started as allies, as a way to be allowed to enter spaces like that. So I don't know. I think that it can be a very gentle and generative thing.
I’m going to move on to some quickfire questions now. WHAT’S YOUR FAVOURITE SMELL?
E.R. Fightmaster: My girlfriend’s armpits.
Lucy Dacus: I was literally going to say that!
DO YOU OWN AN UMBRELLA?
E.R. Fightmaster: I'm humiliated to say that I don't have an umbrella with a duck head on the handle.
Lucy Dacus: I had one of those clear umbrellas for a while. That was nice.
WHAT’S THE BEST FREEBIE YOU’VE RECEIVED BECAUSE OF BEING FAMOUS?
Lucy Dacus: The coolest thing that happens to me is getting sent advanced readers of books that I want to read. The author or the publisher is just like, “You might like this.” It feels so pure, and what really rocks about that is I get to have a reaction completely devoid of other people's reactions. Yeah. So that has been life-changing and changed how I interact with reading.
E.R. Fightmaster: I have a wholesome answer, which is I have a whole cabinet dedicated to when friends send me the book they wrote or the album they just dropped. I love that. I look at this cabinet devoted to my friends' achievements all the time. The other one is: when I went to the NCAA Women's Final, and I went to say hi to Sue Bird and Diana Taurasi, and they had these beautiful Bird and Taurasi mugs. And I was like, “Man, I've never wanted to steal something more in my life.” And a set PA was like, “you can have it” and I don't know if that was because of who I am or just because I threatened to steal them. But that's my favourite thing.
WHAT WAS YOUR LAST ROMANTIC GESTURE?
Lucy Dacus: I regularly get really nice chocolate bars to surprise my gf with at the end of long days. It sometimes is so important that that happens. Like on a mental stability level.
E.R. Fightmaster: I have things that are romantic to me. But then I'm really thinking about what's romantic to my partner. And when she was on vacation, I went to her house without telling her and changed all the litter boxes.
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WERE STARSTRUCK?
Lucy Dacus: I met Bruce Springsteen. That's the one guy that could really make me feel that way. And it was at a friend's birthday party. And I didn't want to be like that. I tried to leave.
But then we ran into each other and I was like, “I think you're the best.” The next morning I called my dad, and it was like, “Are you sitting down?” You know, it was a big day.
E.R. Fightmaster: I was in the car driving on our first little leg of tour yesterday and I was listening to all of the music I liked. It was genuinely, without trying, all of my friends. Like it was Lucy, and then boygenius came on, and Becca Mancari and Muna and Caroline Rose and Liza Anne and all of these bands that I just absolutely adore. And I got kind of choked up because I just thought about how beautiful my life is, that I'm surrounded by the people that I'm actually the biggest fan of. It’s just such a wonderful place to be.
Photography and Creative Direction: Camille Mariet
Interview: Lauren O’Neill
Non Threatening Boys* is Polyester’s platform for exploring all things masculine. To read more of our work, visit our Dollhouse platform, and subscribe to get Non Threatening Boys* directly to your inbox every other week.
The non threatening milady vibes the miladies actually want! 💜
Can’t wait for more in this series, what a treat 🩷